Dec. 2, 2021

How To Establish Boundaries For Healthy Relationships


How To Establish Boundaries For Healthy Relationship

In this podcast episode, we talk about the importance of establishing boundaries. We go over how and why boundary setting has been effective for us. We also speak about the problems we have faced with boundary setting and provide advice on ways we can improve in the future.

Boundary setting is tricky especially when it involves another person you care about. Tune into The 10.24 Podcast and learn from our journey.   

 
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Transcript

How To Establish Boundaries For Healthy Relationships

[00:00:00] Bryan: Welcome to the 10 24, where we talk about love finance and anything in between where your hosts, Bryan and Dr. Sam. And today we're going to talk about how does establish boundaries for healthy relationships? Okay. So this is a great topic because I know how difficult it can be to set a boundary and stick.

[00:00:20] Especially when you have people around you that really want to persuade you and influence you to do something that you shouldn't be doing. That's outside of your norm. What comes to mind is one of my friends used to always say, Hey, let's go out. Let's go. And it would be. Ah, like 11 o'clock at night, let's go out 11 o'clock at night, and then we would party until like five o'clock in the morning.

[00:00:42] Well, that's good. Unless you have worked in the morning, right. And it becomes difficult to create boundaries. If you're trying to have success in life. Cause you need good sleep. You need to be able to be ready to go in the morning. And if you can't do those things and it interrupts your life, [00:01:00] then success is out there.

[00:01:02] Yeah, 

[00:01:02] Dr. Sam: I think I read somewhere that they said establishing boundaries is necessary when you want to keep people in your life. And it's not because you want to push people away. So just establish boundaries with your friends, family loved ones, but as a way to keep them continuously in your life. And so.

[00:01:23] Pushing them away for me. I struggled with establishing boundaries because I assume once I set those boundaries, whether it be friends, my partners, family, whoever it makes it seem as though I'm pushing them away. So this is a good thing for me to always keep in the back of my head. Like you're establishing this to actually keep them 

[00:01:42] Bryan: in your life.

[00:01:43] Yeah. I completely agree. And that's a really good point. Establishing boundaries always feels like, oh, I'm going to restrict myself and not be able to have fun. But what you don't realize is being able to [00:02:00] set boundaries when you're able to set concrete boundaries, it actually frees up your life in a lot of ways.

[00:02:06] Like when we look at budgeting with finance, Budgeting always feels like to me, cause I'm a spender. It always feels like, oh man, I'm not able to put my money towards this. I'm not able to put my money towards that. But then when you actually give every dollar and allocation, you feel more in control of what you're doing in life, like where you're going for that month, everything is already accounted for, for that week.

[00:02:30] So you know exactly what your money is going towards and what it's not going to. The issue is we feel like, at least I felt like I didn't have any free money after that, which is ludicrous. You can allocate money towards free things like to miscellaneous things. And if you do that, then you're able to have fun with that money.

[00:02:49] It's just, you're not going crazy. You know what? You're not spending a thousand dollars on something that you don't need to, like you're not spending $500 a month on eating food. Like, what you're doing is you're saying, okay, these [00:03:00] are my priorities for this. This is where my money is going towards this week.

[00:03:03] This is what is important to me. And I'm just following that routine. So setting up boundaries helps you claim what's important to you in life. Yeah. 

[00:03:13] Dr. Sam: I remember when we first decided to do the. I am, I guess the saver and the relationship. And even for me, I saw it as very restrictive, like your putting limits on how you can spend your money.

[00:03:28] And, oh, I can't decide spontaneously to go out and eat at a restaurant or I can't hang out with friends or whatever it is. But not recognizing, like being able to set those boundaries helped not only keep me aligned with my goals financially like right now I'm paying off my student loan debt. Well, amongst other debt, I'm paying off my student loan debt and being able to allocate that money and recognize like, okay, I budgeted a hundred dollars for restaurants.

[00:03:57] This. I can't go over that. This is how much [00:04:00] I'm going to spend towards restaurants. If someone wants to spontaneously hang out with me, I budgeted that also just in case, but it helps set that boundary for, and for me to set the boundary, because like I said, I struggle with that. So it might've been easy for me.

[00:04:15] Like, yeah, sure. Let's go out. But I'm like, okay, this is what my budget says. It says I have a hundred dollars towards restaurants and I'm trying to pay off my debt. So yeah, it's very beneficial for. 

[00:04:26] Bryan: Yeah, it's funny because when you start setting boundaries, right? When you start setting like clear, concise, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do.

[00:04:35] You're basically giving a vow. I vow to do this, whether it's with my money, whether it's to do with my relationships, you're vowing to set this boundary in this scenario. And when you don't do that, You feel guilty, you feel like why didn't I do that? You feel that voice in your head becoming louder, saying like you're doing the wrong thing.

[00:04:57] You're going in the wrong direction. Right. [00:05:00] And that's so helpful because. When you don't have any boundaries, you're just out of control. Right. But when you set them, then you're going towards a certain thing in life and you're going towards a certain goal. And that keeps you in line and keeps you on track with where you're trying to go.

[00:05:15] Dr. Sam: And I think that's the whole point, right? Like you establishing boundaries is supposed to place you in a place for healthy relationships, whether it's a healthy relationship with your money because now you have. The guilt or the shame or whatever excluded from that because you haven't spent your money frivolously or whether you've set boundaries with your friends or whether you set boundaries with their family, takes away that unhealthy feeling that you feel once you've done something.

[00:05:44] Was against what she wanted to do. So being able to set boundaries is not like I said, it helps continue that relationship and recognize that there are things that are healthy for you and things that are unhealthy for you and being able to [00:06:00] recognize that and set that is really 

[00:06:01] Bryan: important. So do you know a time that when you set a boundary, it didn't go according to plan?

[00:06:07] Dr. Sam: Oh, I think most of the time when I set boundaries, it doesn't go according to plan. Like one of the reasons why boundary setting is very hard for me is because the other person never reciprocates or is happy about the boundary that I've set. So it's very difficult for me to set back. One of the first things that I started setting boundaries with was with my family.

[00:06:30] I lived in North Carolina for four years and distance was a gift from God. And when I moved back here that distance was taken away from being 10 hours apart to now being seven minutes apart from my family. And there was a lot that my family was acting from. And I remember when I tried to first set a boundary, it was not received well, and I felt guilty about it.

[00:06:57] They made me feel guilty about it. [00:07:00] And then like I resisted setting more boundaries because it kind of got flipped. So I've always struggled with setting boundaries. So it's never been, oh, this is 

[00:07:10] Bryan: the worst. Do you mean like you've struggled setting boundaries or you, you struggled in forcing the battle?

[00:07:16] Both. 

[00:07:17] Dr. Sam: I struggle with initiating setting the boundary. And then once I receive the emotions from the other person, I'm like, all right, maybe I was being too excessive, maybe blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I don't know. 

[00:07:28] Bryan: Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. That's interesting because for myself it's the exact opposite.

[00:07:35] It couldn't be further from that. Like, I actually set such harsh boundaries that I found myself just saying no to everything. And that began to push people away. And that began to be an issue because as like, oh, you don't want to do anything, you don't wanna have fun anymore. I was like, no, I don't want to do that because I want it.

[00:07:56] Like, this is my goal. This is what I want to do. And it becomes a no [00:08:00] Fest. And, and, and then you, you become the person that nobody wants to hang around and he'd be like, oh, what's wrong with this person? Right. There is a middle ground there. And I think that what I don't like to see is people that struggle to set boundaries.

[00:08:16] Like my mom, for instance, like she struggles to set boundaries for herself. And I would remember that her mom, like my grandma. She would be asking a lot of her to the point where she would come home crying and she'd be like, I don't know why you're always relying on me to do absolutely everything. I have a brother that can take care of these things and I have to do this.

[00:08:38] I have to do that and I have to do this and it's too much and she became overwhelmed, but then she wasn't able to even bring it up that this was an issue. Right. So I can see the issue with not being able to set boundaries, but like, what are. Things that have helped you initiate, setting a boundary. Like what has given you that [00:09:00] ability to even be able to somewhat of a semblance create a boundary?

[00:09:05] Dr. Sam: What honestly made me set boundaries is. I got to my final straw. And that's normally when I set boundaries, I normally set boundaries when I've been pushed or someone has hurt my feelings or whatever. Like that's when those boundaries are, I was like, okay, now I need to establish boundaries. So for my family, like it was a week full of just crazy shit that was happening.

[00:09:30] And I was like, This has to stop. Like I can't continue this for another year. And actually, I had only been back in PA for six months or so. And so then I was like, I need to establish some sort of boundary, everyone that I set a boundary for. It was not received entirely well. And then I saw. The repercussions of the boundaries.

[00:09:54] I said, so I was like, okay, this did not even go in a positive way. So it just became more [00:10:00] difficult to reinforce that 

[00:10:01] Bryan: boundary. Got it. Got it. Okay. So like that makes sense from a third party, it kind of makes sense. So the point in time is that. You were able to say, okay, I need to set a boundary here is really when you're at your wit's end.

[00:10:13] Like, okay, that's it. I'm going to smack somebody. Right. That's when you're like, I'm going to set a boundary, right. Probably the worst time to set a boundary. Right. Exactly. 

[00:10:22] Dr. Sam: The 

[00:10:22] Bryan: worst time to set a boundary. Yeah. So like when things are preventative like things are a lot more manageable and easy to take in, right.

[00:10:29] For myself, my anger. I can't talk to anybody when I'm angry. Right? So it's like, if you're already like at that fuse where it's like you say one thing, I'm going to knock you out, how you're coming across as, and gonna come across in the best of ways, even though it's a well-intentioned boundary saying like, Hey, I need this.

[00:10:47] It's going to come off, like, fuck you. I don't care about you. Like, you know what I mean? And that's going to make people angry. Right. But what I've learned with at least like execution is in sales, like [00:11:00] it's a necessity, the necessity has to increase. Right. So it's like, when you're saying like, okay, when you're looking at a boundary, like, okay, this is something that I need to do, but it's like, I'll get to.

[00:11:12] It's probably not going to happen. Right? It's like where on the priority list is this thing. And if it's a necessity, like, Hey, if this doesn't happen, my wellbeing is being jeopardized. And it's that kind of picture. Then I think it changes things a little bit, right. Because if you're waiting until the absolute end, it's going to be a rough go, regardless of what the circumstance.

[00:11:34] Yeah, 

[00:11:34] Dr. Sam: I think for me, I at times want to be preventative, but I also, again, like, I just don't like setting boundaries and therefore I don't want to necessarily think of the negative that is gone because in my head I'm like I'm setting boundaries because. Someone's going to take advantage of something or there's going to be an argument that comes out of this and I need to protect myself or whatever.

[00:11:58] Like I'm already preparing [00:12:00] for the worst. And so like with the North Carolina, like moving back from North Carolina, before I moved back in my head, I knew it was going to be overwhelming for me, but I didn't set a boundary then because I was like, it can be. Yep like that, like you be that that's not what's going to happen.

[00:12:20] And then like immediately that's exactly what happened. Like school started. I was watching my little brother three days out of the week. My older brother was asking for things. My mom was asking me to take her sh it was just completely overwhelming. And then. That's when I was like, okay, yeah, nothing was going to change.

[00:12:39] I needed to have established this boundary before I even 

[00:12:42] Bryan: moved back. Right. Right. So I'm thinking about, about to like something that I did for myself. Like I remember when I created goals for myself, it was like a list of goals. Which was the completely wrong way to do it, by the way. Like, that was not a good way.

[00:12:57] Well, what you're supposed to do when you're setting goals is you're supposed to write [00:13:00] down your goal, but then you're also supposed to have a deadline for that. Right. Or it's just like, Hey, sometime in the future, this is going to happen. Right. But I think, cause like I remember like when we talk about like with work and things like that, if you have seven to 10 tasks that you have to accomplish in that week, You have so much on your schedule that you're like, look, I don't have any more room for this other thing.

[00:13:25] Right. And if you're able to say, I don't have enough room that increases your necessity of getting this thing done. Right. And then you're like, Hey, I have to set a boundary. There's no way I could take on this extra thing. I have too much going on. I have these goals. So I think that that's one thing is like knowing exactly what you're doing that day.

[00:13:48] So then like these other things kind of take control and where it's easier for you to say, Hey, I can't do this. I have all this stuff going on. 

[00:13:55] Dr. Sam: Right. I think also about how my personality is. They [00:14:00] always say like folks that have experienced more trauma tend to be very malleable and really trying to. People or overextend themselves.

[00:14:10] So for me, I felt like I needed to over. I feel like not even, I felt, I feel like I need to overextend myself in every relationship that I'm in, whether it's with my friends, my family partners, 

[00:14:22] Bryan: whatever. I feel like I need to overextend you. 

[00:14:26] Dr. Sam: You're wildly inappropriate.

[00:14:31] Bryan: I was just talking about the same thing you're talking about. Oh yeah.

[00:14:37] Dr. Sam: But I feel like I always need to be like, oh, if I'm not, and it's really because like I've experienced situations where I've felt alone, abandoned, whatever. So I'm like, okay. This is how I felt. I have to make sure no one else feels that way. So I'm always like, how can I help? How can I help? How can I help?

[00:14:53] So in my head, it's very hard to be like, okay, I'm not helping this person. And once I [00:15:00] don't help this person in my head, I'm like this, person's going to feel alone. They're going to feel abandoned. They're going to feel betrayed and things that I felt I don't want that other person to feel too. So like, I just constantly feel like I need to come to the aid of people.

[00:15:13] And then I take 

[00:15:14] Bryan: on too much. Rough backing. That's rough for people that live life. Cause there's two types of people. There's people that live life outward in and there's other people that live life inward out. And what I mean by that is whenever something happens in the world, I don't say, oh, how are you feeling?

[00:15:34] And then like, take that in. Right? I say, how do I feel about this? And then. Am I in a position to help you see what I'm saying? So it's going inward out for me, but there's people out there like you like yourself that really care about people that really like that's the first, like they will put themselves in a jeopardizing situation to help them.

[00:15:58] And having a big heart like [00:16:00] that. Isn't common amongst most people. So, I mean, that's obviously why you and I get along so well, but yeah, like I think that the hardest thing to do is to say no for a lot of people. Now what's interesting is in what I'm thinking about when I worked at the Hartford and they were training me on how to train other people.

[00:16:23] And it wasn't just about saying things in the right way. It was about sandwiching. It's like a good response. And then the middle thing is like, this is how you can improve. And then you're wrapping up with a good response. So I would imagine that that would work when you're also. Helping other people or when you're setting your own boundaries as well.

[00:16:44] You know what I mean? Cause like it's difficult enough to think that when I bring this up to this person, they're going to feel sad. They're going to be upset. They're going to be angry. But if you do it in a way that's understanding, then they're going to be. An asshole for [00:17:00] not understanding, you know what I mean?

[00:17:01] Like they're going to be like, yo, like I just told you why, like, why do you not? So it's like a good thing. It's Hey, like, I really appreciate that you gave me this thing to do. I really I'm grateful and I'm happy to be a part of this organization or whatever it is. Right. And then the middle part is like, however, there's these things that I have going on today and I can't fit it in, but I really wish I could.

[00:17:25] And I'm glad that you gave me the opportunity to even. Like, you know what I mean? And it's like, it's less harsh. I don't know if that's always going to make people feel warm and fuzzy or whatever, but it's a start. It really comes out to like, how can I make this person not have bad feelings towards me?

[00:17:42] Like, that's the thing that you're struggling with or, 

[00:17:44] Dr. Sam: yeah, that's honestly a lot of why I don't set. Like, I understand, like you mentioned like the importance of setting boundaries and it makes it so much easier when you set it before the facts, because. They're not in that situation where like you're taking away something.

[00:17:58] So [00:18:00] before this person asks me to take a task, maybe if I had set this boundary beforehand and said, Hey, this is what I can take on that person wouldn't have even asked me. But now, if normally what happens is I set the boundary like afterwards I've done like six tasks and I'm like the seventh one I can do.

[00:18:19] And then like that. You've been doing this for me this whole time. Like now I feel like I don't have anyone else to do it. So like I do it too late and then that makes it even worse on the individual. And then it makes me feel bad and, so on and so forth. So it's definitely important to have that conversation as early as possible.

[00:18:39] So you keep yourself accountable as well. When that person has 

[00:18:44] Bryan: overstepped your bounds in the timeline, is it so when you're like, okay, I need to set a boundary. Is this already too late? Do you already have seven things that you're juggling and then you're like, I need to set a boundary or is it like, Hey.

[00:18:58] I'm filling up with things [00:19:00] and maybe now's a good time, but then you still wait and then you keep filling up with things. Is that how it goes? Or do like right in the beginning, Hey, I'll do two things. And then that's like, when do you actually know? And conceptualize, I need to set a boundary here.

[00:19:13] Dr. Sam: I think I know what my boundaries are. Like I know things that make me upset. I know things that overwhelm me. I feel like. Again, like I should be helping people. So even though I'm like, all right, this is overwhelming. I wait until I get to the point where it's too overwhelming or I've reached my breaking point where I'm like, all right.

[00:19:33] If I do this last thing, I'm going to break. Now I need to set a boundary. 

[00:19:36] Bryan: Okay. So your frame of reference is I need to help people and that takes priority over everything. Okay. So there's no consideration towards you. No. 

[00:19:48] Dr. Sam: I mean, I think, I think about myself, I guess I'm probably like complaining in my head, like Jesus, now I'm going to spend like two hours doing this thing and I'm not going to have enough sleep and blah, blah, blah.

[00:19:59] But I [00:20:00] still do it. 

[00:20:02] Bryan: Yeah. See what I think would be helpful for you is the thing that I did, but I do. Yeah, I 

[00:20:11] Dr. Sam: agree. 

[00:20:14] Bryan: I like that problem. Solved quick click. I mean, like start off by saying no, right? Because if you start off by saying no, it actually gives you the space to say. Yeah. That's 

[00:20:28] Dr. Sam: what I mean, like that's what I should start with.

[00:20:31] Like, I should definitely be like, these are the things I cannot do. So people already know that from the gate. Unfortunately, I don't do that. Like I agree with you a hundred percent. Like that's something I should conversations I should have beforehand for me when I enter into a relationship, I always say the one thing that I can't do is cheating.

[00:20:50] Well, that's the one boundary that I set in a relationship. What 

[00:20:53] Bryan: if you would help me? What if I would 

[00:20:56] Dr. Sam: wait, 

[00:20:58] Bryan: like you said, like the biggest [00:21:00] thing is to help people, if you 

[00:21:02] Dr. Sam: cheated, it would help you. Is that what you're saying? 

[00:21:06] Bryan: We're not going there. I was saying, if you see, then it would help me somehow. No, 

[00:21:13] Dr. Sam: no.

[00:21:14] Like I think cheating is probably the only thing that I'm like really firm on before a relationship like. And from on like, that's what I'm saying. Like that's the one boundary I have established. 

[00:21:27] Bryan: That's a great boundary. Like it's a great boundary, but like the same veracity that you have towards cheating.

[00:21:35] Right? Cause this is something that's absolutely not necessity. This can not happen in the relationship. Your necessity is high. Right. Cannot right. With that being said, that's the same type of energy you need with the other boundaries that you want to firmly say, right? There are boundaries that are, don't have to be so crazy.

[00:21:55] Right. There are boundaries is like, ah, my bedtime is at nine o'clock, [00:22:00] you know? And it's like, okay, I can stay up till nine 30. It's not that big of a deal, but I'd rather not like, but if you say no first, then you can at least have a time to consider. Whether you want to or not, but at least it gives you the space.

[00:22:13] But what you're saying is like other people's feelings are taking precedence over your feelings is what it sounds like to me. Got it. Spot on. 

[00:22:21] Dr. Sam: Can cause that's what my therapist says all the time. 

[00:22:25] Bryan: Is that a good thing? Now 

[00:22:27] Dr. Sam: we've discussed my inability to set boundaries numerous times. 

[00:22:32] Bryan: It's not a good thing.

[00:22:34] I feel like it's a good thing in some situations though. 

[00:22:36] Dr. Sam: Yeah. I think it's a good thing in some situations, but it's not a good thing when it is a pattern in all your relationships. I think that's when it's not 

[00:22:44] Bryan: a good thing to write down your strong boundaries. 

[00:22:52] Dr. Sam: Yeah. Yeah. That is 

[00:22:53] Bryan: helpful. Right? So it's like, no, no.

[00:22:58] I mean like cheating [00:23:00] number one, right. Then you're like, okay, what are the other boundaries that I want to set for myself that are just as like, absolutely not. I'm not doing that. And then just write down a list and like, if any of these things pop up, they're an absolute, no, right from the start. Like I'm not even going to consider it.

[00:23:18] And then later on, I might think about it, but in the beginning, it's a no from there because they, at least, it's not like there's 1% of boundaries that I've set now. There's like at least 10% of boundaries I've set. But then I think what happens, like what happened with me is when I started saying no to things, if the.

[00:23:38] It's very addicting because it's like, it's like, no, I don't want to do that. And they're like, I don't want that. You're like, I don't want to do the thing, things I don't want to do. Why should I do it? And then they're like, well, you should do it because I'm a nice person. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about you being that.

[00:23:53] And then you become like a real asshole, but like, I think for so many that is like such a caring person. That will bring you to [00:24:00] the middle and not to my extreme. 

[00:24:01] Dr. Sam: Yeah. I don't think I'll ever reach a point where I'm like, I like this. I would probably still be like, ah, God, I don't want to do this, but I'll, I'll do like, I've, like I said, I started setting boundaries, but I started setting them too late.

[00:24:15] So I'm still in the process of learning how to set boundaries. I'm not there yet. I still struggle when I try to set a boundary and it backfires on me. It makes it harder for me to set boundaries again. So I'm still learning and struggling in that 

[00:24:31] Bryan: process, but that's only involving other people. Cause like I've seen you set boundaries for yourself that you full fledged hung on to forever.

[00:24:43] As soon as, as soon as we started talking about, okay, let's pay off debts. You're like, okay, I'm not going to go out, eat out at a restaurant. Like I'm not going to do it. When it comes to setting a boundary, as far as getting healthy and working out every morning, you set boundaries like every morning, Yeah.

[00:24:58] Right. So whenever the involving [00:25:00] yourself and setting a boundary for yourself, you're able to do it. Like it's nothing, it's really a boundary when it comes to another person. 

[00:25:08] Dr. Sam: Yeah. Yeah. And so the finances thing, like we're talking like Christmas is coming up. I have three. Gotcha. In my head. I'm like, how can I finesse my finances now?

[00:25:22] Because this is other people where my guy babies will be happy for Christmas. Right? So it's like, if this was all me, I wasn't spending, 

[00:25:32] Bryan: I have 

[00:25:32] Dr. Sam: a three month. Well, he's about to be six months old. I have a two year old and I have a 

[00:25:40] Bryan: four year.

[00:25:46] Dr. Sam: But the stuff that their parents are asking for are like needs. They're not asking for like, oh little Timmy wants a plasma screen TV. It's like, he needs diapers and he needs no shoes. It's not [00:26:00] outrageous needs, but like, The guilt from that is like, all right, I'm their only godmother. They don't have multiple, that'd be weird.

[00:26:07] I'm their only godmother. And then I'm not going to get them what they need for the holidays. It just brings guilt for me. But if this was all about myself and it was like, Sam, you're not spending anything for Christmas for yourself. I'm like, yeah, let's do this. I'm not 

[00:26:19] Bryan: spending anything because, and people will do more for other people than they will for themselves.

[00:26:24] Yeah. And that's just the way human nature works. But yeah, that's the time where you have to get creative. I think, like it was like, Hey, my baby needs diapers. Okay. Let me get a full box of diapers. Let me open up that box and let me take out like each, I think each box has like separate individual stacks, right?

[00:26:46] So you take out a stack and then you put that as a stocking stuffer, right? And then you have for stocking stuffers and they all have diapers in them, or they all have what baby bottles or whatever kids need. And then you call it a day, but like [00:27:00] really are their parents not going to give them diapers?

[00:27:02] Like if you don't get them, these things for Christmas, are they really going to go with. 

[00:27:07] Dr. Sam: No, no, and they're not. I think in my head, I'm going to be like, they'll recognize that Sam didn't get their kids. Their grandmother did not get her God children gifts. 

[00:27:18] Bryan: And that's when the sandwich comes into play. The sandwich responds, Hey, look, I love your God babies.

[00:27:25] I will do anything for these babies. I love them so much. I'm so happy that you made me their godparents right now. I want to be a better position to. And I'm trying to pay off my debt so I can give your babies everything. But right now I'm on a budget and I can't give them that much. So this is what I came on.

[00:27:45] Bam. Right. And then like, if they say, man, you ain't giving a shit, then that's on them. Then they feel like assholes if they respond like that. Right. So like that's the transitional phrasing that we need in these situations when it's dealing with somebody else, it has to be [00:28:00] good. This is what it really is.

[00:28:02] But then wrap it up in. Good. And that's an easier approach. I feel like, like, instead of being like, sorry, I couldn't get them anymore. And then wait for the blow back. Like, you know what I mean? So like, I don't, I don't know, like, so I always refer to like sales because sales has so much to do with life. It deals with like how to say things to people in the right way.

[00:28:23] Right. So they can receive. And it's also an influence as well, but that specific thing that I learned, I never forgot because I never heard somebody say it that way. And then I was like, wow, that's actually very effective. And like, you can't really notice when you're doing it to people either. You just think that the person's is being considerate.

[00:28:41] I love it so much. And then they're like, but this is the real truth, but I really want to, and it's like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, don't worry about it. It's okay. Like, that's just kinda like what people respond to. Yeah. So, 

[00:28:55] Dr. Sam: because I kind of already know myself, I've already budgeted for [00:29:00] $200 and I was like, this is the max that I'm spending on the three kids and everything else.

[00:29:06] I'm still going to continue within my budget, but I've already prepared myself because I've asked for like what their needs are. And I'm like, okay, I'll pick one thing from whatever the list is and do it that way. Yeah, but I think it, to me, it's, it's still very difficult to be like, I think that's a great idea.

[00:29:24] I think it's great to be able to sandwich the know between two other more enthusiastic phrases than no, but with anything you have to practice it. And, and I think I really slack off and practicing that muscle of saying no, I'm so used to saying. Sure. I'll figure it out. Well. Okay. 

[00:29:46] Bryan: The other part of that is you mentioned that, okay.

[00:29:50] I set aside $200 for this specific thing, cause I know myself. Right. So when you set that $200, does that work for you? 

[00:29:59] Dr. Sam: Yeah, [00:30:00] $200 works for 

[00:30:00] Bryan: me. That's. Yeah. Yeah. That's a boundary. Like we don't have to go to an extreme, right. Like as like, Hey, Chris is coming up, people were expecting gifts. I'm going to set a boundary at $200 because that's what I can reasonably afford, but not completely go off the rails.

[00:30:16] Right. So that's an okay boundary. Like I remember like when we were doing the, well, we started doing the debt payoff. Right. But you were saying that, oh, like I was saying to you, like. Whenever we hit a milestone, it's okay to go and eat something as a reward. Right. And then you started eating something. I feel guilty.

[00:30:34] I can't do this. You know what I mean? Like do not like Chick-Filet or not like, you know what I mean?

[00:30:43] Why do we have to go to the extreme with these things? Because. The other factor that's important is your mental health, right? You have to actually be happy to live life and you don't want to set boundaries. So stringent that is going to affect that, right? Why are we going to affect our happiness? Just because we want to set somebody [00:31:00] else's boundary, like.

[00:31:01] To me. So the boundaries should be right for you, but it should also be considerate towards others, I think. Right. So that's something that I'm dealing with as well. Like when I say no to everything, that's not very considerate of other people. Right. So it's hard. It's so hard. It's so hard to say. Yes. I don't know why, but it is like the Christmas lights was a prime example of that.

[00:31:24] Looking at Christmas lights for me, it's like going into a dark corner and watching the paint dry. Right. It's just like, why would you do that? Like, there's no point. I can't even see the paint. Like it, it doesn't matter. Like it's like that to me, you love Christmas. So I'm like, okay, love 

[00:31:41] Dr. Sam: Christmas and everything to do with 

[00:31:43] Bryan: Christmas.

[00:31:45] I was like, no, I don't want to do it. And he definitely said no to me, like, do you want to go to the winter Wonderland? I'm like, no, I don't want that shit 

[00:31:52] Dr. Sam: as like, why don't you love me? I'm like, 

[00:31:55] Bryan: I didn't say that. Yes, you did. No. I just said I didn't want to live. And that's a [00:32:00] great strategy. What are you talking about?

[00:32:05] But then I'm like, you know what I mean? Am I being considerate and there's like, no, I'm not being considerate. Am I thinking about her? No, I'm not thinking about her. Am I thinking about me? Yes, I am. And I'm like, okay. So what's considering this situation. Like I did set a boundary, but now I'm like, okay, what's considered LA.

[00:32:22] You want to look at the lights then w like today I was like, let's go look at the lights. And it was like, what? The whole time was it?

[00:32:31] going to look in the lights back, far removed. I am from looking at Christmas lights. I'm like, let's go in the middle of the day to look at Christmas lights and there's no lights anywhere. I'm like, you want to look in the lights, lights are here. Here you go. And that's it. But I promise you that we will go look at lights and we will make that a.

[00:32:50] It's 

[00:32:51] Dr. Sam: being recorded. So people know that you said that you will take me to go look at 

[00:32:57] Bryan: Christmas lights. May never hear this episode [00:33:00]

[00:33:01] Dr. Sam: that you're taking me to go look at CRA. It doesn't matter if they don't hear it, I will play it back for you and be like, remember that time when you said you were going to take me to go Christmas and it would be like, I don't care if it's December 24th at 1159, like we're going to look at 

[00:33:16] Bryan: Christmas lights.

[00:33:17] That's fair. Yeah. I caught myself in a bond in this one, but that's okay. You baby. But yeah, I think setting boundaries is a difficult thing to get a hang of, but I do think once you get the hang of it, it becomes an addictive. Yeah. 

[00:33:35] Dr. Sam: Like I said, it's something that I'm still working on. I've started setting boundaries just because I recognize how important it is in so many of my relationships, just because I struggle with it.

[00:33:45] And every single one of my relationships, and I think it's beneficial for like my sanity. Not only like, oh, I'm making sure like, oh, they're good. It's beneficial to make sure I'm okay. Because there's a lot of things I feel like I [00:34:00] forced myself to totally. To appease other people and not necessarily recognizing like how that is weighing down on me.

[00:34:06] So definitely necessary. I have 

[00:34:08] Bryan: a good question. Who do you know? That is good at setting boundaries? 

[00:34:13] Dr. Sam: Who do I know that is good at setting boundaries. 

[00:34:16] Bryan: You who is the best model of setting boundaries in your life. Oh, 

[00:34:20] Dr. Sam: best model. Not you. 

[00:34:25] Bryan: You want to go there.

[00:34:29] Dr. Sam: I don't know if I, I have someone that is a good model for not sending back. I 

[00:34:34] Bryan: don't know that could be a problem in itself. I think 

[00:34:38] Dr. Sam: a lot of people struggle with setting boundaries. I know I have friends day. I've seen them set boundaries with people, but I haven't witnessed like, not seeing them. I'm sorry.

[00:34:48] I know that they've set boundaries with other people, but I haven't witnessed it or seen. Self reading like, oh, this person did X, Y, and Z. And this is how they set the boundary. Like, they'll let me know. [00:35:00] Like, this person told me they wanted me to do X, Y, and Z. And I told them, Nope. And I'm like, no, but like I haven't seen it firsthand and be able to take notes on it.

[00:35:10] Bryan: Do you know how people get good at becoming lumberjacks? They keep lumbering the Jack. I mean maybe, but they have experience with it, right? Somebody in their life, they, they were lumber drags. So then all of a sudden they understand the trait and they understand how to do things and they become familiar with it.

[00:35:29] It's like Ken Coleman's proximity principle, right? The closer that you get to something that is good at this specific thing. The better chance you have of being good at it. Right? So it's like if we don't have models of people that have good boundaries or are able to express their boundaries in a healthy way, in a considerate way, if we don't have any models of that.

[00:35:52] Yeah. It's going to be hard to set boundaries for us. Right. So it's like when I decided I wanted to learn sales and when I decided I want to learn about business [00:36:00] or about financial freedom or anything like that, I didn't know anybody in my immediate circle that was good at that type of thing. Right. So then I had to go online and find people that were right.

[00:36:12] Right. So it's like, this can also be an intentional thing that we're like, okay. Setting boundaries. Who's good at setting boundaries. This person is, and why are they because they do this, this and this. And that gives me a little bit more of a resource to continually listen and pay attention to somebody that's doing those types of things.

[00:36:32] And then you can slowly incorporate that into your. That's very 

[00:36:36] Dr. Sam: true. That's some good advice. Yeah. Cause I, I recognize like even with my mom, like she sucks at certain boundaries and I do exactly what my mom does. So learning how to actually do it. Like my therapist is always like, you need to set boundaries.

[00:36:48] I'm like, absolutely right, Darlene. But like actually, like what does that look like? And like you mentioned, sandwiching and things like that, but also I have to change my mindset into this is [00:37:00] not going to be a blow back on me. My initial thought when it's like, all right, I need to have this conversation with this person.

[00:37:06] And then sometimes, or most of the time it doesn't go well. And I'm like, crap. Okay. Now I don't want to do 

[00:37:11] Bryan: this again. Yeah. And I can say so initially, when I was like, who's good at setting boundaries, like you are right. But like, if I gave you my strategy for setting boundaries, it would torment your soul.

[00:37:21] You know what I mean? It would be the worst experience ever, because that's not you, that's not how you see life. That's not how you talk to people. It's completely. Right. Right. So like, it's almost like you need to find somebody that is a similar, compassionate person like you, and they decided to also understand the boundary part of it.

[00:37:38] So it's not just some person that's just like Hitler about things like that. No, I'm serious. Like it has to be someone that that's like approachable, like that cares about people. And what comes to mind is. A business woman of a, I don't know, like an orphanage or something, something, someone that has [00:38:00] both.

[00:38:01] Dr. Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That's some good advice.

[00:38:09] I mean, you seem like you're, you're set on sending boundaries. 

[00:38:12] Bryan: You seem like no. So boundaries with me is. It's overkill. Right? So bounces me is like too much as on the other spectrum. So for myself, it's difficult to not push people away. It's difficult to be considered. Right. So with those two things, I tend to do things on my own and keep a very small circle because of that.

[00:38:41] So I also feel like I'm missing out because there's people that just make friends like that. Right. And I'm just like, no, I don't want to do that. I want to do what I need to do and stay focused on the goal. Right. So for me, it's too much and the, in the opposite direction. 

[00:38:58] Dr. Sam: So what do you think you need to get [00:39:00] to the middle?

[00:39:00] Like how I need to get to the. What 

[00:39:02] Bryan: do I think I need, I don't know. I mean, I think that being nicer is probably a part of it. I've 

[00:39:09] Dr. Sam: always wondered this. Like, can people learn compassion or is that something that's inherited? Whether you have it or you. 

[00:39:19] Bryan: Yeah. So that's a great question. And I've been wondering that a large part of my life, right?

[00:39:27] So I've always said to you, like, I lack empathy, especially when I get upset, it just becomes very blunt and straightforward and it may hurt your feelings. If I keep feeling like I'm being. Or disrespected or whatever. The thing I'm feeling is at that moment. And when that's the case, I'm a learning to not blow a gasket, basically.

[00:39:50] And it's not like outlandish, like I'm like throwing plates at the wall or some shit. I don't want to give you that idea because I know sometimes I speak. But, [00:40:00] yeah. So it's just something that like, I know that it needs to be improved. Cause it's like, when you get out of every disagreement, the other person walks away crying.

[00:40:06] You're like, okay, there's something here. Right. But I think that it can be learned. And the reason I think that is because when I remember the things that I have compassion for, that's when it's easier for me to not get any. Right. For me, it's like a switch. It just turns off. Right. So it's like, when I get angry, it's like, when they say in the movies, like, all I saw was red.

[00:40:36] It's kind of like that. I don't see red, but like, it's almost like anger, just like kind of blinds you. I don't know, like color pink future, but yeah, like I see pink, like, I don't know, but yeah, like, and that's the difficulty with it. So I'm doing a similar thing with preemptive, trying to be preemptive about it.

[00:40:58] So it was like, I [00:41:00] do feel when my anger is kind of building up, I've found that breathing helps, 

[00:41:04] Oh, you just gonna get angry here or not. I find that, that helps. I find that when we say, well, what's the thing, like, let me help you help me understand that gives me a second, a second gap. And then I have to make a decision. And sometimes that decision is like, nah, I'm going to still be angry. Like, you know what I mean?

[00:41:26] It's like, that was not the best, but it helps, but I'm constantly trying to figure it out. Is there a way to trick my natural response and then become empathetic. And I don't have the complete answer yet. Yeah. So like, it may just be. You have to do it through brute force and you just have to like care above everything.

[00:41:52] Like you said, like if it becomes cheating, then that's a hell no, no, it's not going to happen. Like, and maybe it's like, if it becomes [00:42:00] an argument it's so love. So love like that for me. And that's something that I could understand. If it's that, but I think that I've created a habit. That's been so concrete in the method that I'm using, that it's difficult to rewind time and go back and do the right thing.

[00:42:21] Dr. Sam: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Cause I forget what the terms that you use are like internal, external people. I can't remember what the time is, where there are people that care a lot about what others think of them. And then there are people that don't care so much and I'm wondering. Because you're wired for that person that doesn't care as much if it's already inherited that you won't care what your no means.

[00:42:48] Bryan: Yeah. Yeah. I think that since like I have an internal blueprint, like how I see life is how do I feel inside? Bill [00:43:00] inside dictates what happens outside, right? Where your blueprint is an external blueprint. Whereas like I care about what people see feel and all of that. And then how you feel inside isn't as much of a consideration.

[00:43:16] Right. Unless you make it that right, right. It has to be something that you actually are like, okay. Intentionally trying to do. I have to remember to intentionally care about what people are thinking and feeling. You see what I'm saying? So it's just reversed and it's not like one of them is better than the.

[00:43:33] But when you see people that are like, damn, they're just confident for no reason, right. They may have an internal blueprint or they may be faking it. Right. They may like just try to have confidence through that way, but I didn't understand why people. We're saying that like, you're just confident. Like, I don't know why you don't have a feeling of well, I'm like, well, I don't feel afraid.

[00:43:55] Like, why don't I like, it's easy to be confident when you walk in a room and you don't care about what anybody [00:44:00] thinks, you know? Like that's like, oh yeah. I mean, I don't care. Like you're upset about something. So what, and like I said, like I grew up in an all white. Right. And I went to school in an all white environment.

[00:44:12] So it's like, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but I didn't feel out of place where a person with an external blueprint would completely fall out of place and it would affect their mental health and all of that stuff. What happened. So there's instances where having an internal blueprint is helpful, but it's this where it's like, oh, you're actually supposed to care about people.

[00:44:35] That's harder. So. 

[00:44:39] Dr. Sam: That was my only question. I don't have any other questions. 

[00:44:41] Bryan: Cool. Well, I guess that's it. All right. Well that concludes another great episode of the 10 24. If you also enjoy this episode, please subscribe and follow the links in our show notes. So you don't miss out on any content.

[00:44:55] Remember love God, family and yourself always. [00:45:00] And in all ways,take care.